Apple Mecca: Our Open Letter to Radical Muslim Politburo

Dear radical Muslim comrades! While you are the best allies the Left could ever have in the great patriotic war against American Capitalism, there are limits in every relationship, even the most intimate one like ours. Thus, your latest allegation that the Apple Mecca Store in New York amounts to a deliberate insult to Islam (because it resembles your big black Ka'bah cube in Mecca) is not just inane, it's an unprovoked stab in the back. This isn't how good allies treat one another. Yes, our cube-shaped Apple store resembles Ka'bah - so what? It's not like your real Mecca. To be more like the real Mecca it must have regular stampedes crushing thousands of geeks to death every year, aggravated by outbreaks of dysentery among huge crowds of Apple users crammed together in anti-sanitary conditions.

~

The next big threat to Islam: NINTENDO MECCA Comrade Red Square: Let's face it: Muslims did not invent the cube and neither did Apple. If we believed in the bourgeois concept of ownership, we'd say it's owned by the People's Cube. As it is, we declare it people's property. Sheik Omar Abdul Rahman: Did you know that pork bullion cubes are made in the shape of Ka'bah especially to insult Muslims? Lynne Stewart said so and I trust her with my life. Mullah Dubya: I know it on good authority that Ted Kennedy consumes alcohol during the holy month of Ramadan. Also, if you put words Al Gore and Google together and put them against the mirror, you get the Arabic word for "Spare Pork Ribs"

It must also have violent stoning rituals, it must require that female users be covered from head to toe in black robes hiding their faces, and a never-ending stream of hundreds of thousands of geeks must be moving around the Apple store day and night in mind-numbing circles every day of the year. If that were to take place, you might rightfully seethe over Apple's blasphemous imitation of your holiest cite. Otherwise, you might as well claim that ice cubes in Ted Kennedy's vodka on a lunch break are made in the image of Ka'bah cube. Come on! Comrades don't do this to comrades.

We supported you when you pounded Nike into recalling 800,000 shoes because the English word "Air" in its logo allegedly resembled the Arabic lettering for one of the 99 names for Allah. We laughed in approval when you shook down a Swiss supermarket chain, forcing it to withdraw 16,200 rolls of toilet paper with Zodiac signs because the Virgo symbol, when seen upside down "could be taken to resemble the word Allah" in Arabic. We cheered on your heroic boycott of imperialist Coca-Cola because its logo, if flipped horizontally and tweaked slightly, sort of reads "no Muhammad, no Mecca" in Arabic. We nodded when your complains forced the corporate Burger King to withdraw ice cream cones because the line-drawing on the lid resembled Arabic lettering for Allah. We gloated when British banks banned the display of piggy banks and British stores banned pig calendars and pig toys because they might offend Muslims. .We refrained from comments when you rioted against the beauty pageant in Nigeria, killing 200, burning churches, and destroying property. We pretended the riots over the Danish cartoons never happened.

We did our best to help you get away with 9/11 by framing it as a legitimate response of the oppressed minorities against Western imperialism, and by positioning the WTC victims as "Little Eichmanns." We blamed the attack on the Bush administration, or on the Mossad, or on both. We explained your kidnappings, beheadings, hijackings, bombings, and sniping as a heroic fight against the reactionary occupiers. We accepted and rationalized a great deal of your shenanigans, including the pointless murders of policemen, civilians, construction workers, partygoers, vacationers, children on the way to school. But Apple Computer Inc. (PBUH) is where we must draw the line, comrades.

Apple is a progressive company that supports the revolution, donates to liberal causes, and even created a "Product Red" iPod and gift card (to help fight AIDS among African Muslims). Most importantly, it encourages the American populace to abandon its pig-headedness and think different (that is, conform to narrow guidelines of political correctness and avoid thoughtcrime). Their marketing slogan was most likely inspired by the French deconstructionist philosopher Michel Foucault, who called for the West to think different - and he himself followed this rule to the logical point of converting to Islam, embracing Khomeini's theocracy in Iran, and ending up by contracting HIV at a gay orgy in San Francisco and dying of AIDS.

Some say that the Apple cult is reminiscent of Islam. That Apple zealots are intolerant of non-Apple products, they proselytize, despise non-believers and deem converts to PC (apostates) unworthy of living. They treat the Macintosh Bible as holy scripture (the Macintosh Quran coming soon), they perform frequent virtual hadjj to Apple.com, and pronounce fatwas against Microsoft and Bill Gates. They believe that there is no OS but Mac OS and regard Steve Jobs is its Prophet. But this is where the similarities end.

In fact, Apple users are more like what the media refers to as "moderate Muslims." They don't issue death threats to apple sauce manufacturers who put pictures of apples on their labels. They don't demonstrate with placards saying "Behead those who insult Mac OS," and "Geeks will dominate the world." They don't burn down and vandalize CompUSA stores. They don't riot over Dell commercials. And they don't sneak into PC-equipped corporate offices and blow themselves up in the name of Apple and its prophet Steve Jobs.

So how about a tradeoff? You leave Apple alone, and we'll find you a different great excuse to boil and seethe with rage. Are you familiar with the insensitive American tradition to carve crescent-shaped windows in the doors of their outhouses? "Protect the Muslim Crescent" would be a great, clean campaign allowing you to channel your massive creative energy into protecting Islam from this real and present danger. We will send out our activists to gather exact names and locations of the blasphemous wooden cabins, so you can demonstrate in front of them and possibly burn them down - to reinforce the positive image of Islam as a true force of peace in this world.

---

APPENDIX

Nike was forced to recall 800,000 of these sneakers because the English word "Air" in its logo allegedly resembled the Arabic lettering for Allah. How do you say "Think different" in Arabic?

Some Muslims boycott Coca-Cola because its logo, if flipped horizontally and tweaked slightly, sort of reads "no Muhammad, no Mecca" in Arabic.

Muslim complains forced the corporate Burger King to withdraw ice cream cones because the line-drawing on the lid, if turned sidewise, resembled Arabic lettering for Allah. Hm, if Dubya resembles Allah, then... Oh no! I just thought myself a thoughtcrime, comrades! Must think different!

If you have other examples of how Muslim grievances help us move progress forward, post them here.

---

UPDATE - 10/19/06

Observe this discussion on TUAW.com (the unofficial Apple blog)

Muslim community offended by Apple's Fifth Avenue NYC Cube?

The original title was changed in an Orwellian way from [PARTY-CENSORED] to what it is now - under the pressure of the progressive unwashed intelligentsia which shines at its best here. Comrade O'Brien must feel very proud.

One of the agendas in that discussion is to debunk the perceived right-wing logic (which they think affects all right-wingers): "SOME Muslims do it, therefore ALL Muslims do it." How do they debunk it? By confronting it with their own, "very different" logic: "SOME Muslims didn't do it, therefore NO Muslims have ever done it."

Such logic must be the most immediate result of the "Think different" dogma. So useful in class struggle.



Using this principle, the progressive posters quickly uncover the main culprit: the Jew and his tool, MEMRI . They expose MEMRI as a biased Zionist source, quoting CAIR which is, of course, an absolutely unbiased and unaffiliated group.

Then there's the official Apple Gazette that basically follows the same guidelines.

Muslim Community Responds: We Love the Apple NYC Cube

The title, the article, and the comments imply that, just like the progressive community in the West is unified under the Party banners of uniformed diversity, so is the Muslim community worldwide unified into a solid block under the banner of the progressive Muslim Politburo.

Quite a projection.

Which only proves the point of the story above.

One detail that they all have avoided is rather fiery comments and threats posted by SOME Muslims underneath this SFGate.com story below. Apparently, one of the sub-dogmas under the "Think different" dogma is, "if it can't be explained, it means it never happened."

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/ ... ry_id=4203
(In case SFGate decides to revise history, we copied their entire page with comments and posted it here >>)

Quote:

Americans can not get enough of offending Muslims, can they? Imagine them(Muslims) building a gas station in the shape of a church or a public restroom! and yeah, dont mind new bombings as a result of ticking off the extresmists, ya guys had it coming all the way!

Quote:

This is really asking for trouble! Muslim extremists can see a very good reason for moving in now. You are really provoking and offending Muslims all over the world and hurting their feelings. You are also putting innocent peoples lives at risk. Why not have a different design say like a huge apple?! why does it have to be something to do with Muslims and Islam? May Allah Guide you to the right path.

That's the spirit!

But the most important (and unmentioned) part of the story is that the MEMRI article appeared on October 11, 2006, while the offended rhetoric by SOME Muslims started appearing under the SFGate.com story since May, 2006.


The point of this posting is not to instigate a fight between Apple and Muslims, nor to promote hate. It is to show the mechanics of how the world is becoming an uncomfortable place because SOME "Muslims" and SOME "progressives" live with their heads permanently implanted in their asses. What exactly they see there we don't know, but it certainly creates within them the illusion that they can impose their will on the rest of us.



 

Yes, on the surface, Apple seems to be a very Progressive, socially concerned company. The only down side? Apple appears to be the computer of choice for increasing numbers of right wing reactionary hatemongers. Next time you are hanging out in an Apple store, feeling smug, hip and ultra-Progressive, remember that some of your fellow Apple users include Glenn Beck, Tammy Bruce and... *gasp* Rush Limbaugh!

Hmmm... maybe a jihad against Apple isn't such a bad idea after all! (Well, it would kinda suck for me but hey, all for the Common Good, right?)
 

And let's not forget Comrade S. Bunny's contribution to the Greater Good™


 

Red Square

And let's not forget Comrade S. Bunny's contribution to the Greater Good™

Ah, the great Red Hajj for the Common Good! Comrade Red Square, thank you for reminding us that our beloved People's Cube has become a venerable object of International Progressive Socialist Democracy *ahem*. Comrade S. Bunny's glorious False But Accurate™ fauxto shows us just how much love The People of The World have for the Beloved Cube!
 

Too many people state their views in the positive - "this is what I believe in, this is what I am for." Much more difficult and courageous is to fight for what you are against! And, make sure to teach the children... there are a legacy of grievances that knot the binds.


 

Evil, pure evil and we must defeat evil at all cost!
 

These guys need to get their own cause and quit hijacking (pun intended) everyone else's. There is a manual for this:


 

I'd like to get me a pair of those Nikes they look pretty fly...
 

The Cube is the unique property of the People. All other Cubes are "false cubes". Once Apple paints there new little store red, then and only then will we continue negotiations on what OS we will use after the revolution.

Thats all I have to say on the matter.
 

To radical Muslim politburo:
Think period!
 

Our great leader Stalin appreciated rule by the sword.  Please surrender your arms so we can join forces with our tolerant friends!


 

sonofsheldon

To radical Muslim politburo:
Think period!

That isn't neccessary. The intellectual class does the thinking for us. One only needs to "feel". To paraphrase the Beloved Lenin himself, thought is a precious commodity. So precious, in fact, that it must be carefully rationed.
 

Commissar M

The intellectual class does the thinking for us.

They are already doing so. See the UPDATE below the main story.
 

I am giddy like a young lad who has turned in his first thought criminal!!  The Ministry of Truth surely deserves the Order of Lenin for this fine work!! And the best part about it is that they did no work!! Your brain hurt yet?

Follow this:  The Ministry has done such a good job of ensuring everyone's views are strongly rooted in equality and sensitivity and non-offensiveness, that the masses make up their own Thoughtcrimes!!!

Example:

Quote:

This is really asking for trouble! Muslim extremists can see a very good reason for moving in now. You are really provoking and offending Muslims all over the world and hurting their feelings. You are also putting innocent peoples lives at risk. Why not have a different design say like a huge apple?! why does it have to be something to do with Muslims and Islam?
May Allah Guide you to the right path.
Best Wihes


Ha ha!!!  All from a square building!!!  Soon the people will be looking for Thoughtcrime everywhere!!!
They see dice...Thoughtcrime
They see a pack of post it notes....Thoughtcrime!
They see bullion cubes...THOUGHTCRIME!!!!!!

Turn in your parents children for they have drawn cubes before....I know!!!  Free yourselves from their oppression and launch yourselves into the perfect utopian worker's paradise!!!

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

I must calm myself comrades.  Maybe have some Victory Vodka.......

O'Brien

WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
 

It only shows how much we have in common. Our Muslim brothers worship a cube-like icon and those who mock the cube are persecuted and rightfully put to the sword. Those who mock The People's Cube are persecuted for crimes against the People and quickly sent to the Gulag. Our liberal friends at Apple also worship a cube. We are all brothers!
 

I was wondering how long it would take before someone blames this story on the Jew. Well, here you go.

A comment from the unofficial Appe site TUAW.com discussing this story:

Quote:

93. Guardian: "The registered owner of MEMRI, is an Israeli called Yigal Carmon." Now I know who's enjoying the Christian-Muslim conflict.
Posted at 9:54PM on Oct 11th 2006 by Stop War

Comrade Stop War is referring to a Guardian article that debunks MEMRI as a biased source while quoting an unbiased official from CAIR.

It seems that the Guardian article (written by comrade Brian Whitaker himself) has brought the desired peace to the TUAW community, and so the offended Muslims and the progressive Apple users joined hands in friendship, began singing Kumbaya, and went together to beat up the Jew.

The moral of the story is: protect Israel, because after it's gone, who will you blame for your own problems?
 

Red Square

The moral of the story is: protect Israel, because after it's gone, who will you blame for your own problems?

Why, the bougeios RepubliKKKans of course.


O'Brien

WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
 

Red Square

The moral of the story is: protect Israel, because after it's gone, who will you blame for your own problems?

Hmmm... The Hashimites? The Kurds? The Assyrians? There's still a whole pile of non-Arabic Muslims and non-Muslim Arabs, as well as people who aren't either, they could still go after. There's plenty of mutual animosity to go around, too. I've had friends who were Persian Jews who absolutely despised Muslims and Arabs and Muslim Persian friends who also disliked Muslim Arabs. Sunnis hate Shiites and vice-versa and they both both hate Druze. If all of the roughly 4.9 million Jews (out of a total population of roughly 6.2 million) left Israel tomorrow, it wouldn't be long before the future Rachel Corries had some other ethnic group to hate. If I had to guess, my bet would be on the Kurds.
 

This is truly a problem comrades. Just the other day I was inspecting one of the many fine Publik Edukashonal establishments our Commonwealth has to offer when I saw *GASP* a glorious noble educator drawing a square on the blackboard!  A SQUARE COMRADES, A SQUARE! The situation could have escalated resulting in a full blown cube! The Commandant of the Skool and I took immediate progressive action to cancel skool for a month till everything is revised, send the glorious noble educator to the gulag... for life, and inform the parents we will be keeping the kids at the skool for a month to continue their re-education in safe circular shaped class rooms (it would be a crime if we left them in the hands of their parents for a month!).

To prevent further outrage, we must eliminate all visual display of a square or a cube. (Except the Peoples Cube, naturally.)
 

Chairman Meow S. Pun

To prevent further outrage, we must eliminate all visual display of a square or a cube. (Except the Peoples Cube, naturally.)
That means the layout of all websites must be changed - except this one. Let the others figure out how to fit their square ideas into round columns. Computer screens must be changed accordingly. I suggest five-pint stars.
 

Commissar M

Red Square

The moral of the story is: protect Israel, because after it's gone, who will you blame for your own problems?

Hmmm... The Hashimites? The Kurds? The Assyrians? There's still a whole pile of non-Arabic Muslims and non-Muslim Arabs, as well as people who aren't either, they could still go after.
After the final destruction of the West, we must save one or two Jews because when it comes to being scapegoated, nobody says "blame me!" as well as the Jews. Besides, think of all of the time that will be saved when we don't have to rewrite the The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, or the writings of Walt and Meersham. (I would beg your indulgence for misspelling 'Meersham', but spelling is an artificial construct of the corrupt, decadent Western/Capitalist system anyway, so who needs it.)
 

So, we can't build square buildings anymore?
 

Margaret

So, we can't build square buildings anymore?

I propose that the word 'square' or 'cube' be branded a Thoughtcrime!!! From here on out we use the term uncircle or unsphere!

Crap!! I said square...I did it again!!!

I shall be in the re-education center for a little bit.....

O'Brien

WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
 

When "Coca Cola" is modified as it has been, the funny thing is that it seems that the Arabic is actually saying "li muHammad li mekkah" - there is no alef (ا, a) after the laam (ل, l) to make it laa (لا, laa, "no" or "not") and a laam by itself is a prepositional prefix. (لمحمد لمكة, li muHammad li mekkah) - what the Arabic in the image seems to say, albeit with the laam not joined to the following word it modifies - means "to Muhammad to Mecca" or "belonging to Muhammad belonging to Mecca."

Thus, the argument can be made that Coca Cola is secretly a Muslim company.

And now that's reason to boycott it!
 

Muslihoon

Thus, the argument can be made that Coca Cola is secretly a Muslim company.
And now that's reason to boycott it!
Thank you, comrade Muslihoon, for the scholarly insight.  It just proves our point - corporate entities like Coca-Cola must be boycotted regardless of what the mirror reflection of their logo says. We'll leak one argument to the Left, another argument to the Right - and before you know it we have ourselves a Revolution.

The old people's truth still holds: "the issue is not the issue - the Revolution is the issue!"
 

Margaret

So, we can't build square buildings anymore?

I'm afraid not Margaret, we must do everything in our collective power to end the senseless provocation of this peaceful group of well wishers. That means the use of a "sq**re" or a "c*be" in any form that can be seen,heard or known of must cease immediately. Appeasement is not surrender, it is voluntarily submitting to someone elses point of view, which in effect serves the Common Good of everyone. Anything and everything must instead be shaped in more progressive and enlightening forms, like a circle. When I think of a circle, I think of King Arthur and how every knight was equal at his round table, no matter what they did to him (Ex. sleeping with his wife, stealing his coveted sword, ect.) I mean that is what we want is it not?
 

Fine work, comrade Red Square!
On that weird Kufr-Kola site (how the hell did you find it? wow)
http://www.themuslimwoman.com
there is a link to "Global Relief Foundation", which has been exposed as a Muslim terrorist charity:
http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/enforcem ... 24-e.shtml
 

Adnan Hajj

Fine work, comrade Red Square!
On that weird Kufr-Kola site (how the hell did you find it? wow)
http://www.themuslimwoman.com
there is a link to "Global Relief Foundation", which has been exposed as a Muslim terrorist charity

Clearly more companies need to openly support Israel so the Islamo-facists will boycott them as well.

Let these freaks manufacture their own products (besides bombs).

Doesn't look like it bothers them to profit off companies they say support Israel, while calling for a boycott out of the other side of their mouths.

Here's an example...


 

Muslim cleric defends Coke
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/747575.stm

Quote:

For several days the rumours have been circulating that if the Coca Cola logo is viewed in a mirror or upside down, it appears to read in Arabic: "No to Mohammed," "No to Mecca."

It does require a leap of the imagination, but Coca Cola, which has huge sales in the Middle East, has apparently been sufficiently alarmed by the possible consequences of the perceived insult to seek help from Egypt's mufti.

According to the weekly, Rose Al-Yousef, magazine, Coca Cola contacted him after pamphlets appeared calling on Egyptians to boycott the drink on the grounds it is destroying their religion. The mufti is now quoted as saying the logo has been thoroughly examined by a panel of religious experts and given the all clear.

I've always been fascinated by science and technology, but this level of scholarship leaves rocket science far behind.
 

I would've liked to have seen that panel debate. Everyone with their mirrors holding Coke bottles upside down - oops! - arguing over a soft drink logo, trying to discern the truth and reach consensus on such an important topic. At the end of the day they all just wanted a Coke.
 

A Far Side moment:

Lloyd's bar trick turned fatal when a group of angry Muslims walked in to the bar just as he was "vacuum-gluing" the last Coke can to his head. He was simply asking for trouble.


 

With the continued degeneration of our culture, the day cannot be too far out when Hollywood and our holy elite, who at present justify or at best mildly censor the militant Islam, will start worshipping their savagery.  An emasculated and Oprah-ized population is sure to come to regard these deranged psychopaths as courageous REAL men and women.   And not far behind will be a CNN-TIME poll to tell us that 48% of the US voters consider getting beheaded by the jihadists as the ultimate orgasm.  These are not idiotic fantasies; they are logical consequences for a people that empower an ex-president, whose legacy is keeping his international guest waiting while preoccupied with an intern and a cigar in the Oval Office, to continue to hold up his head proudly on the world stage.
 

UPDATE

Over the weekend we visited the Fifth Avenue Apple Store in New York and took some pictures.

In a dramatic development, the apple inside the glass cube has changed its color to RED - apparently in honor of the new revolutionary subliminal (AGITPROP)RED campaign.



No doubt the store is a technological wonder, with all the newest Mac models and iPods scattered on the desks for customers to try them. Once inside, we opened this story in the browser on a large screen and let the Truth out for all to see.


 

laffalot

These are not idiotic fantasies; they are logical consequences for a people that empower an ex-president, whose legacy is keeping his international guest waiting while preoccupied with an intern and a cigar in the Oval Office, to continue to hold up his head proudly on the world stage.

Well comrade laffalot, we must remember that The Party bestows "more equal" status on some especially deserving servants of The People. Of course, comrade President Clinton got away with stuff that would make Nixon look like a choir boy by comparison. Of course CNN is run by weasels and lap dogs in search of a lap. Whatever degrades American society works in The Party's favor, however. They are useful idiots and will continue to do our work until the Revolution comes. Their positions in the new order will be re-assessed at that time. *AHEM*
 

Commissar M

laffalot

These are not idiotic fantasies; they are logical consequences for a people that empower an ex-president, whose legacy is keeping his international guest waiting while preoccupied with an intern and a cigar in the Oval Office, to continue to hold up his head proudly on the world stage.

They are useful idiots and will continue to do our work until the Revolution comes. Their positions in the new order will be re-assessed at that time. *AHEM*

The Revolution takes too long, Comrades! I yearn for Peace In Our Time!
 

Quote:

The Revolution takes too long, Comrades! I yearn for Peace In Our Time!


That's gonna mean a lot of guillotines....
 

Private Pravda

The Revolution takes too long, Comrades! I yearn for Peace In Our Time!

Patience comrade, patience. The Revolution will begin shortly. Comrade Kos and our friends in the media have assured us that the Revolution is at hand and begins in a mere two weeks. We will have control of the Legislature come January, whether by election or judicial fiat. By this time in 2009, the country will be firmly in our hands and we will move swiftly to silence the opposition through the Fairness Doctrine, hate speech laws and federal control of the internet under the guise of "the right of equal access". A new, high tax rate will be tailored to hit RepugliKKKans so they won't have the money to pursue these issues in court or contribute to political campaigns that might undermine us. A solid 7 seat majority on the Supreme Court will finally allow us to deflect any challenges to instituting bans on private ownership of firearms (except for the Party elite). No remaining RepugliKKKan congress member or judge will dare stand against us since we have already proven how easy it is to destroy them. Glorious times are close at hand, comrades! Stay strong and stay faithful to The Party! Within ten years or less (only two 5-year plans from now) this country will be transformed into the Glorious People's Progressive Democracy it is meant to be. You will hardly recognise it from the foul cesspool of selfish, totalitarian, imperialist theocracy it is today.
 

I already took stock in state sponsored canned dog food it is sure to be a major staple in the middle class diet , its quite painfull to think of how long it will take to remove all the light poles and pavement in this country though....
 

Apparently, our message has been heard:

Al Jazeera switches to Macs!

http://www.macnn.com/articles/06/11/20/al.jazeera.intl.switches/
 

5Yo, can somebody e-mail me what all this long thing is abuot... ive read most and still don't understand, is this pro or anti islam? :s

anyway heres my adress: legit-hustlers-merchandise@msn.com

Thanks...
 

Attention Muslim readers who are not proficient in English or are irony-challenged -

AN EXPLANATION OF THIS SATIRE:

This article is neither for nor against Islam. It makes fun of the people who are using Islam to gain political power and harass other people (Muslims and non-Muslims) with pretense religious sensitivity.

If that sensitivity were genuine, they would've been first and foremost offended by terrorists, demagogues, misogynists, honor killers, and other low-lives in their midst, who give Islam a bad name. But since we don't see many signs of that happening, we conclude that the religious sensitivity in question is a shameless lie.

We hope this satisfies your curiosity.
 

I fully understand the frustration from Apple and the nation. There are repulsive humans out there who epitomize hypocrisy in Islam. With that said, this is nevertheless a totally bad way to blow off frustration. All the best to you!
 

Did you ever see any muslim trying to insult any other religion?
then why you people try to comeup with such kind of an evil.

No religion allows to insult other religions.

Even if you don't have any religion, as being human being, you are not supposed to insult other's bieleves, as you would not like others to insult yours.
 

So what do you suggest we do instead, Neurtal? Would you object if we strapped explosives to our kids--maybe those who are mentally/developmentally disabled--and sent them to blow up some mosques?
 

neurtal

Did you ever see any muslim trying to insult any other religion?
Yes I have.

Quote:

On one visit he discovered three Muslims – two patients and a consultant – inside the prayer room with the two icons masked by a cloth. A picture of the Virgin Mary had also been placed face down. Read All

Quote:

Sheikh Abd Al-Aziz Fawzan Al-Fawzan, a professor of Islamic law at Al-ImamUniversity, who frequently appears on Saudi TV made anti-Christian comments on Saudi Al-Majd TV. He told his audience to hate anyone "who worships Christ, son of Mary" and added that "whoever says 'I don't hate him [i.e. a Christian]' is not a Muslim..." Read All

 

neurtal

Did you ever see any muslim trying to insult any other religion?


What the global warming is wrong with you?!? Have you been living in a cave since Islam came around? Pick up a freakin' newspaper and you will find out just how "tolerant" they are of other religions. Heck, just read the Koran! It says to subjugate/kill anyone who doesn't convert to Islam. Is that an insult to other religions?
 

neurtal

Did you ever see any muslim trying to insult any other religion?
then why you people try to comeup with such kind of an evil.

No religion allows to insult other religions.

Even if you don't have any religion, as being human being, you are not supposed to insult other's bieleves, as you would not like others to insult yours.

Let's see, shall we?

Exibit A:



Link: http://www.pmw.org.il/car/Animals/c209441.html

Exibit B:



Link: http://www.pmw.org.il/car/Animals/c2092.html

Exibit C (A newer version of comrade Maksim Maksimovich's picture):



Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:2001_ed_The_International_Jew_by_Henry_Ford.jpg

Quote from Wikipedia:

"According to Bernard Lewis, while Muslims held negative stereotypes regarding Jews, these stereotypes were not indicative of antisemitism because, unlike Christians, Muslims viewed Jews as objects of ridicule, not fear, as Muslims did not attribute "cosmic evil" to Jews. In his view, in the late nineteenth century movements first appear among Muslims that can legitimately be described as antisemitic."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_antisemitism#Antisemitism_in_the_context_of_Islam

And as comrade Pinkie has pointed out, you do not find blowing people up offensive?

Do not worry about us though and who we offend, if the Muslims get their hands on us; I am sure that they will handle this situation as carefully as they did when the Danish cartoons were published.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/28/2001_ed_The_International_Jew_by_Henry_Ford.jpg
 

Quote:

Have you been living in a cave since Islam came around?

Islam and caves? What's the difference? Where's Osama?
Who is Civilized?

Cavemen live in caves and think like cavemen and commit caveman acts.

So do Moonbats.
 

People you are confusing much of everything. Blaming everything on the muslims. Infact the whole thread became boring after a while. The same old blame game without any thorough research and without the need for a positive dialogue. I am always there for people who need to get their facts straight but lets be honest , I feel you are bent upon abusing other people's ideologies. Maybe trying to get your frustration out. All you have gotten for me are lame word-of-mouth "facts" which you havent even cared about verifying. My friends dont take this "Think Differently" logo THAT seriously.

Nevertheless, I am sure there might be some Non-Muslims who are honest and think without prejudice and it is for them that I would try to clear some misconceptions.

1) @ Premier Betty: Dear where did you get to know this part of the Quran. I have read it over and over but have failed to get the Great insight that you have *Claps* . For your kind information, Quran never says anything about oppression, infact it orders us to respect other peoples beliefs and I must agree that most Muslims today are not following Quran to the word nowadays. The only exception to this rule is when a Non-Muslim intends to harm Muslims FOR NO REASON.

2) I hate the word extremist muslims. This creature does not exist. People are either muslims or not.

3) The other issues such as the role of Israel, jews, Osama, are quite lengthy and most of them dont have any religious affiliations. but I would still welcome a debate and hopefully put the truth in front of you all.
 

Faraz

People you are confusing much of everything. Blaming everything on the muslims. Infact the whole thread became boring after a while.

I must beg to differ, sir. For your information, I blame George W. Bush for everything, and any good Progressive will tell you that NEVER gets boring! Why, my life is so miserable, blaming him and hating him is the only reason I have for getting up in the mornings. It's the only thing that energizes me and sends me to the computer to pound out posts like this!


(Pinkie off)

Quote:

For your kind information, Quran never says anything about oppression, infact it orders us to respect other peoples beliefs and I must agree that most Muslims today are not following Quran to the word nowadays. The only exception to this rule is when a Non-Muslim intends to harm Muslims FOR NO REASON.



Boldface added by Pinkie, and BINGO! There's the out. The loophole. The fine print that justified hijacking jet airliners full of innocent people, ramming them into the WTC, and killing thousands more innocent people. Who decides, and how does one decide that Muslims have been harmed--or even that harm has been "intended"? (To me, that means you haven't harmed anyone per se; you either tried but failed, or you're just thinking about it.) It's wide open for interpretation IMVHO.

Also, please explain how you justify strapping explosives to a disabled child.
 

Faraz

People you are confusing much of everything. Blaming everything on the muslims...I feel you are bent upon abusing other people's ideologies.
<Karakter_Off>
I'm afraid it is you who are confused, Faraz. We are not blaming everything on the Muslims, we blame killers for killing, and oppressors for oppressing. When people are literally strongarmed into compliance to a dogma, their free will to serve their God is taken away. I'm sure you would agree that free will is one of the most important things Allah (or God, or whatever you believe) gave to mankind. The free choice of faith is what binds God and man together.

Faraz

I hate the word extremist muslims. This creature does not exist. People are either muslims or not.
Militant Islamic fundamentalists do indeed exist. The Taliban, al Qaeda, Hamas, and Hezbollah are but just a few examples of extremists who gather under the banner of Islam. I fully understand that these groups in no way represent mainstream Islam, but they do exist, and to believe otherwise is delusion. Even in America there are examples: Nation of Islam comes to mind for one.

Justification for terrorism against other Muslims by militant Islamists, in particular against Muslim regimes they consider non-Islamic, is often based on the contention that the targets are apostates (rejection of Islam in word or deed by a person who has been a Muslim). Islamic law traditionally designates death as the penalty for apostasy from Islam (please correct me if I am wrong).

Please be assured that I am not trying to argue with you, or "abuse your ideologies" in any way. The attempt of this thread (beside the raw satirical value) is to help people become more aware of the strongarm tactics of some people use to achieve their ends. That is an unacceptable way of influencing people to those of us who frequent this website. We tend to be of the belief that everyone is free to choose their own path, and coercion and obligation are deplorable.
 

Faraz

1) @ Premier Betty: Dear where did you get to know this part of the Quran. I have read it over and over but have failed to get the Great insight that you have *Claps* . For your kind information, Quran never says anything about oppression, infact it orders us to respect other peoples beliefs and I must agree that most Muslims today are not following Quran to the word nowadays. The only exception to this rule is when a Non-Muslim intends to harm Muslims FOR NO REASON.


@ t3h sexist pig. NOT WOMAN!!! ME MAN!!! ME SMITE YOU WITH IRON CLAWS!!!!!



Obviously it doesn't say those same words in the Koran, but you'd have to be an idiot not to notice the wording and the constant references to forcing people into their laws. Unless you're reading the "White Liberal Guide to the Koran and Islam Because You Just Realized that there are People out there Who aren't Like You and now You just Want to Study Them Because 9-11 Alerted you to their Presence".
 

Quote:

@ t3h sexist pig. NOT WOMAN!!! ME MAN!!! ME SMITE YOU WITH IRON CLAWS!!!!!


I was just trying to "see things differently". LOL.
I apologise for the mistake.
My dear friend, I would say only one thing about your "forciing into submission" claims. Muslims ruled pretty much the whole world at one point in time, had they FORCED people, who knows you might have had a muslim name as well.
Secondly, you have got to start believing that there are black sheeps in every society. and muslims, as humans, are not any different. And dont U tell me that there arent any in Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism Or Communism.
How muslims act or behave has nothing to do with what Islam teaches. Islam means peace, and muslims are supposed to submit their will to Allah. And mind you, we believe that EVERYONE has the same right to live as muslims unlike most other people. If you do not understand the Quran, let me tell you that Quran condemns to even abuse anyone and killing is very farfetched indeed.
I would try to explain more. C I belong to a country called Pakistan. Yea yea i know you would instantly think of suicide bombings and all. But you see the ground realities are quite different then what most of you see courtesy the media.

Quote:

Who decides, and how does one decide that Muslims have been harmed--or even that harm has been "intended"?


I have seen families destroyed, brutally murdered, not by Muslims or jews or christians. I cannot blame any religion for that. I have Afghani friends too and you cannot imagine how one day kids are playing in the barren lands and suddenly a screaming missile hits from an unknown chopper wiping the innocent faces of this planet. Just imagine what if one member of the family is left behind to rue the deaths of his parents, his siblings. What does he do ? Where does he go ? What religion does he follow? He knows nothing. At that point, people are extremely vulnerable. Any one, and mark my words, anyone can brain wash them. They have only revenge on their minds. I am not saying that they are right. But c'mon people, just imagine yourself in their place. God forbid, if your families get destroyed in front of your eyes, are you people going to enjoy life?
I wish i could give you media proof but I cannot. I see the ground realities with my own eyes and do not believe what other people tell me. We could get rid of all this hatred if everyone could do the same.

I still would request you Premier Betty to give me the exact wordings of where teh Quran mentions this. As I understand it, you have no idea of Arabic language and you cannot quage what a certain sentence means or what the context is.
 

Just for you.

Quote:

Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah, with your wealth and your persons. - Koran 9:41


Yes, I see how killing unarmed citizens is peaceful.

Quote:

Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - Koran 48:25


Much unlike Christianity and Judaism, Muslims are only kind to each other. Everyone else doesn't count.

Quote:

When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly. - Koran 47:4


These just keep coming...

Quote:

Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.
- Koran 9:29


What was that? Was that something about subjugating the non-believers?

Quote:

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - Koran 5:54


So much tolerance...

Quote:

O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - Koran 9:73


Okay, I've heard enough.

http://www.wvinter.net/~haught/Koran.html
 

Faraz

Secondly, you have got to start believing that there are black sheeps in every society. and muslims, as humans, are not any different. And dont U tell me that there arent any in Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism Or Communism.
Yes history is full of atrosicties committed by people in the name of God. The difference between us is I admit my relgion is guilty of past crimes and don’t make excuses for them, defend them, try to justify them, or ignore them. When it happens today I get angry with our religious leaders responsible for the crimes and speak out against them, not against their critics.

You on the other hand may or may not admit to them; however you make excuses, and justifications for them. And then when anyone points out some problems they see in the world of Islam. You are upset and blame the critic, not the source of the problem.

The comments you read here are doing something many followers of Islam seem to have a problem doing. That is looking at Islam with a critical eye. Now you can say “I hate the word extremist muslims. This creature does not exist” all you want. The truth is they clearly do exist; they kill innocents shouting the name of God almost daily.

In my opinion, muslims worldwide need to hold a mirror up to Islam and start questioning how your relgion is being taught. I fear until they do so, life for them will only to be filled with more tragedy.


I am not your enemy; your enemies lives among you. I think you should be judging them as harshly as you judged us here. And if the rest of the Muslim world did the same, maybe things would start to improve.

Quote:

And mind you, we believe that EVERYONE has the same right to live as muslims unlike most other people.
I think you’re wrong, most people in the world believe that “that everyone has the same right to live”.

Quote:

I belong to a country called Pakistan. Yea yea i know you would instantly think of suicide bombings and all.
No that’s not what I would think and I doubt few others here would either. I know people wherever they live are very similar to me. We all have the same desires for life, security, a chance at prosperity, and a better future for our children.
Or as our Founding Fathers put it, “Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness".
 

Quote:

But c'mon people, just imagine yourself in their place. God forbid, if your families get destroyed in front of your eyes, are you people going to enjoy life?




Probably not for a while, Faraz. But how is DOING THIS supposed to make me feel better, and/or make everything right? [URL=http://w]

[/URL]Read it and weep. I did.

Meanwhile, the same moonbats who get in a lather screaming for the heads of Bush and Cheney because of pyramids of naked men or guys being waterboarded--stuff the moonbats themselves probably did while they were in college getting indoctrinated into the joys of caring, compassionate socialism--don't give a crap about the atrocities described in that link. They just ignore it.
 

@Premier Betty: Mate ur reading a misguided translation. As an example for your rather less inquisitive mind, I am pasting the correct version of the translation (and repeating the fact that you should learn Arabic in order to understand it)
Hope it makes sense and hope you remove the glasses of hatred and prejudice and see it with ur naked eye.

And btw, "lives" does not mean killing it means submitting to Allah's will. I think I have made my self clear in this part of the dialogue and I neednt say much. The fact is that you have no idea of Arabic and you are believing what every tom dick and harry says . If you want to contradict someones ideas, get well versed on a subject. I had the translations of all the verses you mentioned and I couldnt get time to paste all of em but I would help you out and send you the link of an authenticate place.

http://www.quran-islam.org/93.html
NB: Kindly read the note in the second para

Quote:

Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah, with your wealth and your persons. - Koran 9:41

Quote:

[Quran 9:41] You shall readily mobilize, light or heavy, and strive with your money and your lives in the cause of GOD. This is better for you, if you only knew.


If you have anymore QUESTIONS (not abusive foolish remarks) about the Quran, I would be more then happy to answer them.

I would answer the other people in my next post. Most of the issues mentioned are just political as I said earlier. but nevertheless I will see what I can do to clear things up.
 

Quote:

You on the other hand may or may not admit to them; however you make excuses, and justifications for them. And then when anyone points out some problems they see in the world of Islam. You are upset and blame the critic, not the source of the problem.


No, never gave justification for them. NEVER! I never think they are right, I thought I made that pretty clear earlier. THEY ARE WRONG!!. But my point is do not blame Islam for being wrong, blame the muslims. Thats fine with me. I agree that people are developing crude sense of everything, they are twisting Islam according to their own desires. Friends, that does not mean Islam is wrong or the Quran is wrong. I am whole heartedly with all of you when you condemn behaviour such as Commissarka Pinkie did. But please stop abusing the beliefs of the majority of peace loving muslim people that have got nothing to do with these acts. Please!
 

http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=53024
About the suicide bombers, maybe you would like to see the other side of the story. I wonder why you believed THAT story more then this. It MAY never have happened. But if it has I and a majority of muslims condemn it seriously.
 

Okay, let's look at these "correct" translations.

Quote:

[9:29] You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.


Okay, if that doesn't sound like forced subjugation, unless that due tax being paid unwillingly is a metaphor for something else.

Quote:

[47:4] If you encounter (in war) those who disbelieve, you may strike the necks. If you take them as captives you may set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. Had GOD willed, He could have granted you victory, without war. But He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of GOD, He will never put their sacrifice to waste.


In war? How do we know that? There is no context, there is nothing to go by other than a little note that was added in that says "in war".
 

FARAZ

But please stop abusing the beliefs of the majority of peace loving Muslim people that have got nothing to do with these acts. Please!
Abusing??? You view what is said here as abuse? Why is it that Muslims such as you, consider a humorous jab at Islam, or a humorous drawing of Mohamed an assault on your beliefs? Are you really that thin skinned? Are you really that insecure in your beliefs that a few humorous remarks are seen as a threat?

Quote:

About the suicide bombers, maybe you would like to see the other side of the story. I wonder why you believed THAT story more then this. It MAY never have happened. But if it has I and a majority of Muslims condemn it seriously.
See there you go Farza with your double speak. You condemn and then deny and make excuses for it all in the same breathe.
 

Faraz

http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=53024
About the suicide bombers, maybe you would like to see the other side of the story. I wonder why you believed THAT story more then this. It MAY never have happened. But if it has I and a majority of muslims condemn it seriously.

I'm open to both sides. Read the entire link I posted. It cites numerous other instances besides those two women.

From your link:

Quote:

"Both had recently received psychiatric treatment for depression and/or schizophrenia. From what we know now there's no indication that they had Down syndrome," Smith said, citing records obtained by the military.




Down's Syndrome is diagnosed not by psychiatric evaluation, but by genetic testing, which was probably the "no indication" the military spokesperson referred to. Yet they obviously had other problems, which can be corollary to DS. Until a few decades ago, autism was frequently mistaken for schizophrenia. Considering the attitude towards women in Muslim culture, I feel compelled to question just how much testing and treatment they get for mental/developmental disabilities.

But even if they weren't disabled, still, how do you justify using women and children for this purpose?

What does it accomplish?

How is it supposed to make me feel better about whatever horrible wrongs have been done to me and my family?

And how is it supposed to make everything right?
 

Islam is the correct religion. Its an advancement to Judaism and Christianity. See the rights and wrongs here: http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac.htm
 

Islam is the correct religion. Its an advancement to Judaism and Christianity. See the rights and wrongs here: http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac.htm
 

Well, shut my mouth, monopoly! I guess your post settles the whole question, doesn't it?

I just LOVE websites that exhort visitors to keep clicking so as to raise the site's ranking! Pinkie can smell desperation--and it makes her giddy.

And I just LOVE websites that make all these statements about Christofascism without anything to back them up. Who needs details? We have a plan. Yes, a plan. No, don't ask questions, just take our word for it. Trust us!

Oh, I just LOVE people like you because you remind me of the Democrats!

Finally, I just LOVE all the work you put into parsing Leviticus 20:21 to make it look as if it allows parents to marry their children. I'll bet that took some imagination.

To save others from making a mad mass dash to your website, thus knocking your server out (I'm sure Comrade Red Square can tell you all about what a hassle that is):

Quote:

Leviticus 20:21
If a man marries his brother's wife, it is an act of impurity; he has dishonored his brother. They will be childless.
If the interpretation in sub-section "b" above is wrong - that GOD Almighty didn't supposedly promise to cause either of the parents to become barren - then the only interpretation left for this verse is that the children born from the new married couple are not considered actual legitimate children. So in the case of sin (a Jewish man and a Jewish woman violated Leviticus 20:21 and got married in some land today), the children are considered strangers! This means that they can neither inherit nor carry the family's last name.
So if this is the case, then here are some serious questions:
1- Since the children are not related to either of the parents, can we now marry any of the parents' children, from their previous marriages, to the new children?
2- Can the mother, in case of divorce, marry any of the unrelated boys?
3- Can the father do an act of polygamy and marry any of the unrelated girls, especially if they're not legally registered under his name?
See proofs about polygamy being allowed in both the Old and New Testaments in the Bible.
I am sure that your natural inclination for an answer will be "NO" if you are a Jew or Christian, because these questions sound quite outrageous! But let us leave emotions aside for a second and let us think objectively here. Please explain to me what does "they will be childless" exactly mean? If neither of the parents is promised to become barren, then what else does it mean? And if the relationship between the parents and the new children is not approved by GOD Almighty, then

Show me the verse from the Bible that prohibits any of the parents from marrying any of these unrelated children!

I'll show you mine if you show me yours--specifically, the one that explains how turning children into human bombs makes everything right!
 

I just happened to come across this article. I am a Muslim but not a fundamentalist. I have many non-Muslim friends and I know that extremists are present in every religion. We believe in peace and don’t agree with the radicals. I felt quite hurt after reading the comments.

Why doesn’t apple build a store resembling a church, monastery or a temple and call it “ APPLE CHURCH – think different” or “APPLE TEMPLE – think different”? And then see the reaction? Why only we are targeted and mocked upon?

If other religious institutions are so open minded then why did the Christians protest on the DAVICI CODE, when many Christian beliefs were made a target? I thought they “THINK DIFFERENT!”

Religion and beliefs are to be respected not targeted upon.

Well to be honest the Nike air symbol seems more like Allah written in Arabic than air, I had to squint my eyes and read air.

What many intellectual, broad-minded Muslims and I feel is that everything done to hurt us is deliberate. Do you know a non-Hindu cant slaughter a cow in India as they worship it? So why doesn’t that become a topic of debate? Muslims would have even protested if the Danish had made cartoon of Jesus, as He too is our Prophet and we do believe in bible, as it is also one of our books.

Please respect the faith of every human being, whether a Muslim, Zoroastrian, Hindu, Christian, Jew or Buddhist. Don’t just watch local TV and listen to people, come out and see how the world lives.
 

Quote:

If other religious institutions are so open minded then why did the Christians protest on the DAVICI CODE, when many Christian beliefs were made a target?


Ummm...Sunny, it's the Da Vinci Code, as in Leonardo Da Vinci. I don't remember any Christian "Death to America" protests, burning any embassies, people hurling rocks and firing AK-47s because of a stupid movie. Yeah, some Christians were offended but did they react VIOLENTLY? How many people where hurt or killed by these "Da Vinci protests".? How many buildings, automobiles and other personal and government property was torched and destroyed in these "Da Vinci" protests? The answer is a BIG FUCKING ZERO. Prove me wrong.
VIOLENCE is the way of Islam. ISLAM was founded by a WARRIOR who spread "The word of Allah by the SWORD".
Jesus on the other hand was about tolerence, love, self sacrifice and forgiveness.
The Jews have Yom Kippur.....Where's the Muslim atonement? IT DOESN'T EXIST.

Ancient grievences, HATE and RAGE.

Quote:

Do you know a non-Hindu cant slaughter a cow in India as they worship it?

So fucking what?
You can't read a Christian Bible in Saudi Arabia. There's tolernce for you. If I ever decide to go to Saudi Arabia for a visit, I'll be sure not to pack a bible...God knows...SOMEBODY MIGHT GET OFFENDED AND I MIGHT GO TO JAIL.

Been to any good stonings lately sunny and I'm not talking about the dopers in Berkeley.


But hey...It's Easter! Always look on the bright side Sunny!


Have a nice day Sunny! Enjoy your rage. Try not to be offended.
 

sunny

Don’t just watch local TV and listen to people, come out and see how the world lives.
What an arrogant statement. What the do you know about how any of us live our lives?

Quote:

Do you know a non-Hindu cant slaughter a cow in India as they worship it? So why doesn’t that become a topic of debate?
As soon as a Hindu’s start killing innocent people in the name of their god/gods I promise their religion will become a topic of debate.

Quote:

What many intellectual, broad-minded Muslims and I feel is that everything done to hurt us is deliberate.
The only thing that is deliberate is criticism of how humorless and easily offended you are. Are your beliefs so fragile that a cartoon or a piece of satire is a threat?

Quote:

Muslims would have even protested if the Danish had made cartoon of Jesus
Oh Really. Well you have a lot of work to do then.



Even of Easter Sunday as a Christian I still can laugh at this one. There’s the difference between me and you.

 

Maksim, you fool...He said Danish not American.
It's just Danish cartoonists the Muslims are upset with.

Blessed are the cheesemakers!
 

Good point!
I heard all the Danes working at the towers stayed home on 9-11.
 

And the rumors that Denmark was among the first countries to join the "Coalition of the Willing" in endorsing and implementing United States, UN, and EU-initiated counter-terrorism measures have been greatly exaggerated.
 

Quote:

Do you know a non-Hindu cant slaughter a cow in India as they worship it? So why doesn’t that become a topic of debate?

Topic of debate? Are you comparing Hindu cow worship to the utter barbarities of Sharia law? Or are you comparing Hindu cow worship to Jihad against the West? Those are topics of "debate." Is that what you're talking about? Who cares if Hindus worship cows! That doesn't have anything to do with (to put it mildly) violating individual rights. Especially on the massive scale done in Islamic cultures.

To put the "debate" closer to home, I don't want to live under Sharia law, I want to live in freedom and, I want to make certain that our heritage of individual rights and freedoms gets passed down to future generations.
 

Here is something from Walter Williams worth reading.

Quote:

Peace-loving Muslims

By Walter Williams


All of us should give some serious thought to some of the ideas contained in an article circulating the blogsphere titled "Why a Peaceful Majority is Irrelevant." So often our political leaders, "experts" and talking heads tell us that Islam is a peaceful religion and most Muslims are not out to destroy the West. We're told it's only that 1 percent, out of 1.2 billion Muslims, who are fanatical jihadists who believe America is the Great Satan, cause of all evil, and should be attacked and destroyed. In terms of national policy, it's irrelevant whether Islam is a peaceful religion and most Muslims are peaceful.

Think back to the 1930s when the Japanese murdered an estimated 3 million to 10 million people in China, Indonesia, Korea, Philippines and Indochina; and on December 7, 1941 when they attacked Pearl Harbor, killing over 2,400 Americans. I'm betting that most of Japan's at-the-time 60 million population were peace-loving people and would have wanted nothing to do with the brutal slaughter in China and the attack on the U.S. In formulating our response to the attack, should President Roosevelt have taken into account the fact that most Japanese are peace-loving people ruled by fanatics? Should our military have only gone after the Japanese pilots and their naval armada? I'd also wager that most Germans were peace-loving people and not part of the Nazi sadists wanting to wage war on their neighbors and exterminate the Jews. Again, should Roosevelt and Churchill have taken that into account in their response to German militarism? My answer is no and thank G-d it was their answer as well. Whether most Germans, Italians or Japanese were peace-loving or not was entirely irrelevant in formulating the Allied response to their militarism.

Horrible acts can be committed in countries where most of the people are peace-loving and simply want to be left alone to attend to their affairs. I imagine that described most of the people in the former Soviet Union; however, that did not stop the killing of an estimated 62 million people between 1917 and 1987. The same can be said of the Chinese people, but it didn't stop the killing of 35 million of their countrymen during Mao Zedong's reign. Whether most people of a country are peace-loving or not is not nearly as important as who's calling the shots.

At this particular time, fanatical jihadists are calling the terrorism shots in many Muslim countries. Their success in committing terrorist acts is in no small part the result of the actions by the millions of peace-loving fellow Muslims. First, there is not enough condemnation of their terrorist acts by the Muslim community. More important is the direct or indirect assistance terrorists receive through the silence of their fellow Muslims. There is no way terrorists can carry on their operations, obtain explosive materials, run terrorist training camps, raise money without the knowledge of other Muslims, whether they're government officials, bankers, family members, friends or neighbors. Because those millions of peace-loving Muslims do not speak out and expose terrorists and don't more fully cooperate with domestic and international authorities trying to stop terrorists, they become enemies of the West just as the peace-loving people in Germany, Italy and Japan became enemies of the Allied powers during World War II. Like them, Muslims should be prepared to suffer the full might of the West in its efforts to fight terrorism. I'm hoping that the millions of peaceful Muslims take the proper action to avoid such an outcome. I'm not that optimistic. We're involved in a clash with a culture that has little regard for the Western values that hold the sanctity of human life and liberty dear.

 

I guess you dont know about the Gujarat riots that took place in 2002. where many innocent muslim women were raped and children were burnt alive. and who asked USA to help Afghanistan or Iraq? I have lived in the middle east and know how peacefully they live. I have Iraqi friends who fled from their own country just because some people declared it a threat, for oil! have you ever felt the pain of those children who lost their families, due to bombings and are now living in orphanages with amputated limbs?you cant imagine their pain coz you havent seen it.have you forgotten pearl harbor? were japanese muslims? what about bosnia, palestine and kashmir where the muslims are suffering and dying?

i have also traveled and lived in saudi arabia and believe me there are so many expatriates and non-muslim living and enjoying life there, they dont go back as they live luxuriously. I lived in as expat compound myself. we had everything. I was warned by my Muslim friends not to go there as they have strict laws. but i enjoyed my time, jeddah has every foreign brand that you can imagine, tax free shopping, dance parties...in fact i have more christian friends from saudi than anywhere else. religion is a sensitive topic it can enrage anyone. just a few statements from me angered you all.

The word Jihad stems from the Arabic root word J-H-D, which means "strive." Other words derived from this root include "effort," "labor," and "fatigue." Essentially Jihad is an effort to practice religion in the face of oppression and persecution. The effort may come in fighting the evil in your own heart, or in standing up to a dictator. Military effort is included as an option, but as a last resort and not "to spread Islam by the sword" as the stereotype would have one believe.

just debating and proving muslims wrong for these killings is wrong. these fundamentalists dont belong to islam. islam says to balance the religion and world. not to go into the extreams of any. and who knows these terrorists might belong to some other religion but have kept muslim names to encourage hatred? how do you know they are muslims? have you met them?
 

and i dont think i will post anymore. i dont have time for this nonsense. and this clearly shows how weak your faith is as you can make fun of your religion and god. if you believe in something and you consider it yours you try to protect it as much as possible. i might not be a good muslim, not offer prayers regularly or read the quran religiously. but i believe in Allah and have learnt and am stil learning as much as i can about my religion.

what you are doing here is also terrorism if not physically then verbally. this makes you a terrorist.

Happy Easter to you all...
 

Quote:

i dont have time for this nonsense. and this clearly shows how weak your faith is as you can make fun of your religion and god. if you believe in something and you consider it yours you try to protect it as much as possible.

You have it backwards Sunny. If you have a strong belief in your faith, a mere cartoon shouldn't offend you and make you commit acts of violence in your God's name on behalf of your God.
Get it?
How can a cartoon shake your belief and make you angry enough to commit acts of VIOLENCE?
It's not rational. It makes no sense. It's not civilized.
Verbal terrorism? That's as nutty as a pecan pie.
Nobody here is a terrorist.
 

I would also add to Laika's response, if one has a strong enough belief in something, they should be able to defend it without sinking to petty name-calling that has nothing to do with the issue at hand. When someone starts doing that, you know they've lost the fight.

Sunny sez:

Quote:

who asked USA to help Afghanistan or Iraq?



It always cracks me up to hear this, especially when people say the Iraqis in particular never asked to be liberated from Saddam Hussein. Hello? Oppressed people generally aren't in a position to ask to be liberated--if they try, they might find themselves getting shoved head first into a wood-chipper or something. I don't know why that's so difficult for the anti-war crowd to understand.

(sigh) I guess no Muslim will ever explain to me why it's all right to strap explosives to women, children and the disabled, and call them "suicide bombers."

BTW, what do the women get after they blow themselves up? 72 men who never leave the toilet seat up?

Gee, I'll bet the Mime wishes it was this easy to run off trolls.
 

u guys don't know a damn thing about islam. With the Oklahama City bombing, ppl didnt blame all the white folks, how come with 9/11, everyone is blaming all the muslims. In Islam, it is wrong to even kill a little bug, let alone a human being. Everything you hear on the tv, in the newspapers, etc is not true. I thought you all would be educated enough to know that by now. What would your reaction be if we strapped someone on a fuckin cross? You guys are the ones who are bombing Iraq and killing all the innocent ppl there. How many of your own ppl have you killed.. lets see, i believe its up to what... fuckin 4000?????????????? Ya like sunny said... Happy Easter to you too
 

Scary American baby killers?



Al-Qaeda must now locate these children and cut off their heads for cooperation with the evil crusader. Most Iraqi civilians were killed by al-Qaeda and other religious fanatics who blow up weddings, shops, and street markets.
 

islam

u guys don't know a damn thing about islam. With the Oklahama City bombing, ppl didnt blame all the white folks, how come with 9/11, everyone is blaming all the muslims. In Islam, it is wrong to even kill a little bug, let alone a human being. Everything you hear on the tv, in the newspapers, etc is not true. I thought you all would be educated enough to know that by now. What would your reaction be if we strapped someone on a fuckin cross? You guys are the ones who are bombing Iraq and killing all the innocent ppl there. How many of your own ppl have you killed.. lets see, i believe its up to what... fuckin 4000?????????????? Ya like sunny said... Happy Easter to you too
Open your ignorant eyes. Where has anyone blamed all of Islam of anything??? Just the opposite you stupid fool, we go out of our way to make it clear which Muslims are responsible.

I’m feed up with people like you crying about how the whole of Islam is being blame for everything. Then you make half-assed excuses for those who are responsible for murdering in the name of Allah.

Why don’t you tell Al Qaeda “In Islam, it is wrong to even kill a little bug, let alone a human being” it seems they didn’t get the memo. Or are you afraid they will cut off your head?

You religion is being destroyed from within, and all you do is whine about us outsiders, who are doing our best TO WAKE YOUR FOOLISH ASS UP!